在假新闻的时代,要如何寻求真相? 分享到
How to seek truth in the era of fake news 2018-01-1814773

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Chris Anderson: Christiane,great to have you here.So you’ve had this amazing viewpoint,and perhaps it’s fair to say that in the last few years,there have been some alarming developments that you’re seeing.What’s alarmed you most?
克里斯安德森:克莉丝蒂安,很高兴你今天能来。所以,你有个很棒的观点,也许可以说,在过去的几年间,你看见了一些令人担忧的发展。最让你担忧的是什么?
Christiane Amanpour: Well, just listening to the earlier speakers,I can frame it in what they’ve been saying:climate change, for instance -- cities, the threat to our environmentand our lives.It basically also boils down to understanding the truthand to be able to get to the truth of what we’re talking aboutin order to really be able to solve it.So if 99.9 percent of the science on climateis empirical, scientific evidence,but it’s competing almost equally with a handful of deniers,that is not the truth;that is the epitome of fake news.And so for me, the last few years -- certainly this last year --has crystallized the notion of fake news in a way that’s truly alarmingand not just some slogan to be thrown around.Because when you can’t distinguish between the truth and fake news,you have a very much more difficult time trying to solvesome of the great issues that we face.
克莉丝蒂安艾曼普:嗯,听了前几位讲者的演说,我可以借用他们所说的来表达:比如,气候改变、城市,对我们的环境以及生活的威胁。基本上,可以归结到了解真相,并能够针对我们谈论的议题去探究真相,才能够真正去解决它。所以,如果 99.9% 的气候科学都是实证的、科学的证据,但却在与少数驳斥者几乎平头式地竞争,那就不是真相,而是假新闻的缩影。对我而言,过去几年,特别是最近这一年,假新闻的概念被以一种很让人担忧的方式给具体化了,不再只是随处喊喊的口号而已。因为当你无法区别真相和假新闻的差别时,你就会更难去试图解决我们面对的一些重大议题。
CA: Well, you’ve been involved in this question of,what is balance, what is truth, what is impartiality,for a long time.You were on the front lines reporting the Balkan Wars 25 years ago.And back then, you famously said,by calling out human right abuses,you said, "Look, there are some situations one simply cannot be neutral about,because when you’re neutral,you are an accomplice."So, do you feel that today’s journalists aren’t heeding that adviceabout balance?
克里斯:你涉入什么是平衡、什么是真相、什么是公正这些问题,已经很长一段时间。25 年前,你在巴尔干战争的前线做报导。那时,你说过一句名言,大声说出人权被侵犯,你说:「听着,有些状况就是无法中立去看待,因为当你中立时,你就是共犯。」你觉得现今的记者没有留意到那个关于平衡的建议吗?
CA: Well, look, I think for journalists,objectivity is the golden rule.But I think sometimes we don’t understand what objectivity means.And I actually learned this very,very young in my career,which was during the Balkan Wars.I was young then.It was about 25 years ago.And what we faced was the wholesale violation, not just of human rights,but all the way to ethnic cleansing and genocide,and that has been adjudicated in the highest war crimes courtin the world.So, we know what we were seeing.Trying to tell the world what we were seeingbrought us accusations of bias,of siding with one side,of not seeing the whole side,and just, you know,trying to tell one story.I particularly and personally was accused of siding with,for instance, the citizens of Sarajevo --siding with the Muslims,because they were the minority who were being attackedby Christians on the Serb sidein this area.And it worried me.It worried me that I was being accused of this.I thought maybe I was wrong,maybe I’d forgotten what objectivity was.
克莉丝蒂安:我认为对记者而言,客观是黄金法则。但我认为,有时我们并不了解客观的意义。我在职涯的极早期已学到了这一点,当时是在巴尔干战争的期间。那时我很年轻。大约是 25 年前。当时我们面对的是大规模的违反,不只违反人权而已,而是一路到排除异族和种族灭绝,已经被世界最高战犯法庭裁决了。我们知道我们看见了什么。为了试图告诉世界我们看见了什么,导致我们被控诉,说我们有偏见、选边站、不看整体大局,而只述说单方片面的故事。我个人还特别遭到控诉,比如说我站在塞拉耶佛市民的那一边,说我「站在穆斯林的那一边」,因为在那里他们是被攻击的少数,被与塞尔维亚同一阵线的基督徒攻击。那让我忧心。我忧心遭受这样的指控,心想,也许我错了,也许我忘了客观是什么。
But then I started to understand that what people wantedwas actually not to do anything --not to step in,not to change the situation,not to find a solution.And so, their fake news at that time,their lie at that time --including our government’s,our democratically elected government’s,with values and principles of human rights --their lie was to say that all sides are equally guilty,that this has been centuries of ethnic hatred,whereas we knew that wasn’t true,that one side had decided to kill,slaughter and ethnically cleanseanother side.So that is where, for me,I understood that objectivity means giving all sides an equal hearingand talking to all sides,but not treating all sides equally,not creating a forced moral equivalence or a factual equivalence.And when you come up against that crisis pointin situations of grave violations of international and humanitarian law,if you don’t understand what you’re seeing,if you don’t understand the truthand if you get trapped in the fake news paradigm,then you are an accomplice.And I refuse to be an accomplice to genocide.
接着我开始了解,人们想要的其实是什么都不做,不要涉入,不要去改变局势,不要去找解决方案。所以,那时他们的假新闻,那时说谎的包括我们的政府,我们的民选政府,有着人权价值和原则的政府,他们的谎言是,每一方都同等有罪,这是由数百世纪的民族仇恨造成的;而我们知道那并非事实,而是一方铁了心要屠杀另一方,灭绝异族。所以,就在当时我了解到客观意味着给每一方被倾听的平等机会,并跟每一方都谈,而不是平等对待每一方,不是勉强造出道德等值或事实等值。当你面对国际法及人权法被重大违反的危机关口,如果你不了解你看到了什么,如果你不了解真相,如果你被假新闻写作典范给困住,那么你就是个共犯。
(Applause)
(掌声)
CH: So there have always been these propaganda battles,and you were courageous in taking the stand you took back then.Today, there’s a whole new way, though,in which news seems to be becoming fake.How would you characterize that?
克里斯:所以,宣传战一直存在着,而你那时有勇气采取了坚定的立场。不过,现今有了全新的新闻变成假新闻的方式。你会如何描述它的特性?
CA: Well, look -- I am really alarmed.And everywhere I look,you know, we’re buffeted by it.Obviously, when the leader of the free world,when the most powerful person in the entire world,which is the president of the United States --this is the most important, most powerful country in the whole world,economically, militarily, politically in every which way --and it seeks to, obviously, promote its values and power around the world.So we journalists,who only seek the truth --I mean, that is our mission --we go around the world looking for the truthin order to be everybody’s eyes and ears,people who can’t go out in various parts of the worldto figure out what’s going on about things that are vitally importantto everybody’s health and security.So when you have a major world leader accusing you of fake news,it has an exponential ripple effect.And what it does is,it starts to chip awayat not just our credibility,but at people’s minds --people who look at us,and maybe they’re thinking,Well, if the president of the United States says that, maybe somewhere there’s a truth in there."
克莉丝蒂安:嗯,我真的很忧心。放眼任何地方,我们都不断遭受它的冲击。显然,当自由世界的领袖,当整个世界最有权势的人,也就是美国总统──美国是全世界最重要、最有权势的国家,在经济、军事、政治,每个面向都是──很显然寻求要在全世界提升价值和权势。所以我们这些只寻求真相的记者,怀抱我们的使命,跑遍世界去寻找真相,要成为那些无法去到世界各地的人的眼睛和耳朵,我们要找出发生了哪些事,哪些事会大大影响每个人的健康与安全。所以,当那个主要的世界领袖指控你做假新闻时,会引起呈指数成长的涟漪效应,造成的结果是开始一点一点削弱不只我们的信用,还有人们的理智与主见。人们看着我们,也许他们在想,「嗯,如果美国总统都那样说了,也许或多或少是真的。」
CH: Presidents have always been critical of the media --
克里斯:总统们向来都对媒体很不满──
CA: Not in this way.
克莉丝蒂安:不是现在这样的方式。
CH: So, to what extent --
克里斯:所以,到什么程度──
(Laughter)
(笑声)
(Applause)
(掌声)
CH: I mean, someone a couple years ago looking at the avalanche of informationpouring through Twitter and Facebook and so forth,might have said,Look, our democracies are healthier than they’ve ever been. There’s more news than ever.Of course presidents will say what they’ll say,but everyone else can say what they will say.What’s not to like? How is there an extra danger?"
克里斯:我是说,几年前如果有人看见大量资讯涌入,资讯从 Twitter及 Facebook 等地涌入,他可能会说:「我们未曾像现在这么民主。新闻量远多于过去。当然,总统们会说他们要说的话,但其他人也都可以说自己想说的。
CA: So, I wish that was true.I wish that the proliferation of platforms upon which we get our informationmeant that there was a proliferation of truth and transparencyand depth and accuracy.But I think the opposite has happened.You know, I’m a little bit of a Luddite,I will confess.Even when we started to talk about the information superhighway,which was a long time ago,before social media, Twitter and all the rest of it,I was actually really afraidthat that would put people into certain lanes and tunnelsand have them just focusing on areas of their own interestinstead of seeing the broad picture.And I’m afraid to say that with algorithms, with logarithms,with whatever the "-ithms" arethat direct us into all these particular channels of information,that seems to be happening right now.I mean, people have written about this phenomenon.People have said that yes,the internet came,its promise was to exponentially explode our access to more democracy,more information,less bias,more varied information.And, in fact, the opposite has happened.And so that, for me,is incredibly dangerous.And again, when you are the president of this country and you say things,it also gives leaders in other undemocratic countries the coverto affront us even worse,and to really whack us -- and their own journalists --with this bludgeon of fake news.
克莉丝蒂安:我希望那是真的。我希望资讯来源平台的数量激增意味着真相和透明度激增,深度和正确性也激增。但我认为,实际发生的恰恰相反。我承认自己有点算是卢德份子。(注:反对技术革新的人)即使当我们开始谈到资讯高速公路,那是很久以前了,在社交媒体、Twitter、这类平台之前,其实那时我很害怕,怕它会把人们放到某些线道或隧道,使他们只聚焦在自己感兴趣的领域,而不是放宽视野去看大局。我很怕演算法、对数这类东西被用来引领我们到特定的资讯管道,而这正似乎是现在正在发生的情形。人们已经在写关于这个现象的文章,人们说,是的,网际网路到来了,它承诺让我们能大量接触更多民主、更多资讯、较少偏见、和更多样化的资讯。但事实上,发生的情形相反。所以对我来说,那是相当危险的。同样的,若你身为国家总统,你的发言会掩护其他不民主国家的领袖,让他们能进一步冒犯我们,挥着假新闻的棍棒扎扎实实痛击我们和他们自己的记者。
CH: To what extent is what happened, though,in part, just an unintended consequence,that the traditional media that you worked inhad this curation-mediation role,where certain norms were observed,certain stories would be rejected because they weren’t credible,but now that the standard for publication and for amplificationis just interest, attention,excitement, click,Did it get clicked on?Send it out there!and that’s what’s -- is that part of what’s caused the problem?
克里斯:单就已经发生的事来说,非蓄意的后果到了什么程度?你所从事的传统媒体业扮演着调解和处理资讯的角色,遵从某些基准,驳回一些不可信的故事。但现在出版和散播的标准只剩下有趣、注意力、刺激、点阅数,「它被点阅了吗?」「把它发出去!」
CA: I think it’s a big problem,and we saw this in the election of 2016,where the idea of "clickbait" was very sexy and very attractive,and so all these fake news sites and fake news itemswere not just haphazardly and by happenstance being put out there,there’s been a whole industry in the creation of fake newsin parts of Eastern Europe, wherever,and you know, it’s planted in real space and in cyberspace.So I think that, also,the ability of our technology to proliferate this stuffat the speed of sound or light, just about --we’ve never faced that before.And we’ve never faced such a massive amount of informationwhich is not curatedby those whose profession leads them to abide by the truth,to fact-checkand to maintain a code of conduct and a code of professional ethics.
克莉丝蒂安:我认为这是个大问题,2016 年的大选已看到这现象,那时,点阅诱饵是非常性感、非常有吸引力的,因此所有这些假新闻网站及一则则假新闻并不是随意或偶然被放在那里,而是有一整个产业在制造假新闻,在部份东欧地区,无论是哪,假新闻被植入实体和网路的空间中。所以我也认为,我们的科技有能力将这类东西扩散出去,扩散的速度几近音速或光速,这是我们未曾面对过的。我们未曾面对过如此大量、未经汇整的资讯,未被那些身负把关职则、必须确认事实的真相、并维持职业伦理准则与行为准则的那些人
CH: Many people here may know people who work at Facebookor Twitter and Google and so on.They all seem like great people with good intention --let’s assume that.If you could speak with the leaders of those companies,what would you say to them?
克里斯:这里许多人可能认识在 Facebook、Twitter、Google 等公司工作的人。他们都看似很棒、有着良善的意图,就让我们先这样假设。若你能和这些公司的领导人说话,你会对他们说什么?
CA: Well, you know what --I’m sure they are incredibly well-intentioned,and they certainly developed an unbelievable, game-changing system,where everybody’s connected on this thing called Facebook.And they’ve created a massive economy for themselvesand an amazing amount of income.I would just say,Guys, you know, it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee and look at what’s happening to us right now."Mark Zuckerberg wants to create a global community.I want to know: What is that global community going to look like?I want to know where the codes of conduct actually are.Mark Zuckerberg said --and I don’t blame him,he probably believed this --that it was crazy to thinkthat the Russians or anybody else could be tinkering and messing aroundwith this avenue.And what have we just learned in the last few weeks?That, actually, there has been a major problem in that regard,and now they’re having to investigate it and figure it out.Yes, they’re trying to do what they can nowto prevent the rise of fake news,but, you know,it went pretty unrestricted for a long, long time.So I guess I would say, you know,you guys are brilliant at technology;let’s figure out another algorithm.Can we not?
克莉丝蒂安:你知道吗,我相信他们的意图都是非常良善的,他们确实发展出令人难以置信并且改变游戏规则的系统,每个人都在这个名叫Facebook 的东西上彼此连结。他们为自己创造出大规模的经济、以及惊人的收入。我只会说:「各位,该是醒来的时候了,闻一闻咖啡、看看现在在我们身上发生了那些事。」马克祖克柏想要创造一个全球社群。我想要知道:这个全球社群看起来会是什么样子?我想要知道行为准则到底在哪里。马克祖克柏说──我不怪他,他可能确实相信这点──他说,如果认为俄国人或是其他人可以在用这里胡搞乱弄,那就太疯狂了。我们在前几周刚刚学到了什么?我们得知其实那方面的问题大得很,现在他们得要调查到底怎么一回事。是的,他们目前正倾力试着防止假新闻兴起,但你知道,长久以来,假新闻一直未曾受限。所以,我想我会说,你们在科技方面才华横溢,咱们来想出另一个演算法,行吧?
CH: An algorithm that includes journalistic investigation --
克里斯:一个包含新闻调查的演算法──
CA: I don’t really know how they do it, but somehow, you know --filter out the crap!
克莉丝蒂安:其实我不清楚他们怎么做,但总要以某种方式把狗屁都过滤掉!
(Laughter)
(笑声)
And not just the unintentional --
不仅仅滤掉非蓄意的,
(Applause)
(掌声)
but the deliberate lies that are plantedby people who’ve been doing this as a matter of warfarefor decades.The Soviets, the Russians --they are the masters of war by other means, of hybrid warfare.And this is a --this is what they’ve decided to do.It worked in the United States,it didn’t work in France,it hasn’t worked in Germany.During the elections there,where they’ve tried to interfere,the president of France right now, Emmanuel Macron,took a very tough stand and confronted it head on,
也要滤掉刻意植入的谎言,由数十年来习以为常把假新闻当作战争手段的那些人所植入的谎言。苏联人、俄国人,他们是利用另类手法制造战争的大师,是混合战的大师。假新闻是他们决定采取的手段。在美国奏效了,在法国行不通,在德国还没有用上。选举期间,他们试图干预,法国的现任总统埃玛纽耶尔马克宏采取非常强硬的立场正面迎战,安格拉梅克尔也一样。(注:德国总理)
CH: There’s some hope to be had from some of this, isn’t there?That the world learns.We get fooled once,maybe we get fooled again,but maybe not the third time.Is that true?
克里斯:这当中是有些希望的吧?世界在学习。我们被骗过一次,也许我们会再被骗一次,但也许不会犯第三次错。是这样的吗?
CA: I mean, let’s hope.But I think in this regard that so much of it is also about technology,that the technology has to also be given some kind of moral compass.I know I’m talking nonsense,but you know what I mean.
克莉丝蒂安:咱们就希望如此吧。但我认为,在这方面有很大一部份和科技相关,科技也得要有某种道德罗盘。我知道我在说废话,但你们明白我的意思。
CH: We need a filter-the-crap algorithm with a moral compass --
克里斯:我们需要一个道德罗盘过滤狗屁的演算法。
CA: There you go.
克莉丝蒂安:你说对了。
CH: I think that’s good.
克里斯:我认为那很好。
CA: No -- "moral technology."We all have moral compasses -- moral technology.
克莉丝蒂安:不,「道德科技」。我们都要有道德罗盘──道德科技。
CH: I think that’s a great challenge.CA: You know what I mean.
克里斯:我认为那是个大挑战。克莉丝蒂安:你懂我的意思。
CH: Talk just a minute about leadership.You’ve had a chance to speak with so many people across the world.I think for some of us --I speak for myself,I don’t know if others feel this --there’s kind of been a disappointment of:Where are the leaders?So many of us have been disappointed --Aung San Suu Kyi,what’s happened recently,it’s like, "No! Another one bites the dust."You know, it’s heartbreaking.
克里斯:花一分钟谈谈领导。你有和世上那么多人说话的机会。我认为我们当中有些人──我代表自己发言,不知道其他人是否有同感──一直怀有这样的失望:领导人在哪里?我们这么多人一直觉得失望──翁山苏姬最近怎么搞的,就像是:「不好!又阵亡了一个。」很让人心碎。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
Who have you metwho you have been impressed by, inspired by?
你遇过谁,你对谁印象的深刻、受到谁鼓舞呢?
CA: Well, you talk about the world in crisis,which is absolutely true,and those of us who spend our whole lives immersed in this crisis --I mean, we’re all on the verge of a nervous breakdown.So it’s pretty stressful right now.And you’re right --there is this perceived and actual vacuum of leadership,and it’s not me saying it,I ask all these --whoever I’m talking to,I ask about leadership.I was speaking to the outgoing president of Liberia today,[Ellen Johnson Sirleaf,]who --
克莉丝蒂安:你谈到世界正处在危机当中,这点绝对是真的,我们这些一生埋首在危机中的人──我是说,我们都在精神崩溃的边缘。所以,现在压力很大。且你是对的,我的确感受到领导的空缺状态,实际上也是如此,且不只是我这样说,我问了所有与我对话过的人关于领导。我今天在和赖比瑞亚即将离职的总统谈话,艾伦强森瑟利夫,她
(Applause)
(掌声)
in three weeks’ time,will be one of the very rare heads of an African countrywho actually abides by the constitutionand gives up power after her prescribed term.She has said she wants to do that as a lesson.But when I asked her about leadership,and I gave a quick-fire round of certain names,I presented her with the name of the new French president,Emmanuel Macron.And she said --I said, "So what do you think when I say his name?"And she said,Shaping up potentially to be a leader to fill our current leadership vacuum."I thought that was really interesting.Yesterday, I happened to have an interview with him.I’m very proud to say,I got his first international interview.It was great. It was yesterday.And I was really impressed.I don’t know whether I should be saying that in an open forum,but I was really impressed.
在三周后,她将会成为非常少数真正遵循宪法,在规定任期结束后就交出权力的非洲国家领袖之一。她说她想要那么做,教大家一课。但当我向她问到领导时,我快速丢给她一堆名字,我提到新法国总统的名字,埃玛纽耶尔马克宏。她说──我问:「你觉得他如何?」她说: 「有潜力能够成为填补目前领导真空的领袖。」我觉得那十分有趣。正巧昨天我刚访问马克宏。我能很骄傲地说,我得到他的首次国际访谈。很顺利。那是昨天的事。我的印象非常深刻。不知道我是否该在公开的论坛中这样说,但我印象非常深刻。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
And it could be just because it was his first interview,but -- I asked questions, and you know what?He answered them!
可能只因为那是他的首次访谈,但我问了问题,你们知道怎样吗?他回答了问题!
(Laughter)
(笑声)
(Applause)
(掌声)
There was no spin,there was no wiggle and waggle,there was no spend-five-minutes- to-come-back-to-the-point.I didn’t have to keep interrupting,which I’ve become rather renowned for doing,because I want people to answer the question.And he answered me,and it was pretty interesting.And he said --
没绕圈圈,没闪避,没花五分钟才回到重点。不需要我一直打断,我以访谈时打断对方而闻名,因为想要他们回答我的问题。他回答了我,那十分有趣。他说──
CH: Tell me what he said.
克里斯:告诉我他说了什么。
CA: No, no, you go ahead.
克莉丝蒂安:不,不,你先说。
CH: You’re the interrupter,I’m the listener.
克里斯:你是打断专家,我是听众。
CA: No, no, go ahead.
克莉丝蒂安:不,不,请说。
CH: What’d he say?
克里斯:他说了什么?
CA: OK. You’ve talked about nationalism and tribalism here today.I asked him, "How did you have the guts to confront the prevailing windsof anti-globalization, nationalism, populismwhen you can see what happened in Brexit,when you could see what happened in the United Statesand what might have happened in many European electionsat the beginning of 2017?"And he said,For me, nationalism means war. We have seen it before,we have lived through it before on my continent,and I am very clear about that."So he was not going to,just for political expediency,embrace the, kind of, lowest common denominatorthat had been embraced in other political elections.And he stood against Marine Le Pen,who is a very dangerous woman.
克莉丝蒂安:好,今天在这里谈到民族主义和对部族的忠诚。我问他:「你怎么有胆子去对抗反全球化、民族主义、民粹主义的主流趋势,特别是当你看到英国脱欧发生的情况,当你看到在美国发生的状况,以及 2017 年初许多欧洲选举本来可能发生的状况呢?」而他说:「对我来说,民族主义意味着战争。我们以前就看过了,我们以前在欧陆经历过了,而我非常清楚这一点。」所以他并不只求政治的眼前利益,像是拥抱最小共同点,其他的政治选举都会去拥抱最小共同点。而他对抗玛琳勒朋,玛琳勒朋是个很危险的女人。
CH: Last question for you, Christiane.Tell us about ideas worth spreading.If you could plant one idea into the minds of everyone here,what would that be?
克里斯:克莉丝蒂安,最后一个问题。和我们谈谈值得散播的想法。如果你能在这里的每个人脑中植入一个想法,会是什么?
CA: I would say really be careful where you get your information from;really take responsibility for what you read, listen to and watch;make sure that you go to the trusted brands to get your main information,no matter whether you have a wide, eclectic intake,really stick with the brand names that you know,because in this world right now,at this moment right now,our crises, our challenges,our problems are so severe,that unless we are all engaged as global citizenswho appreciate the truth,who understand science,empirical evidence and facts,then we are just simply going to be wandering alongto a potential catastrophe.
克莉丝蒂安:我会说,要非常留意你的资讯来自何处;要对你所读到、听到、看到的资讯主动负责;确保你的主要资讯必须是从可信任的品牌那儿取得的,不论资讯的来源有多么广泛或是多么多样化,一定要守住你认识的品牌,因为在这个世界中,在目前这时刻,我们的危机、我们的挑战、我们的问题,都非常严重,除非我们都能以全球市民的身份来参与,能够意识到真相,能够了解科学、实证证据与事实,不然我们就只会离开正道,走向潜在的大灾难。
So I would say, the truth,and then I would come back to Emmanuel Macronand talk about love.I would say that there’s not enough love going around.And I asked him to tell me about love.I said, "You know, your marriage is the subject of global obsession."
所以我会说「真相」,接着我会回到埃玛纽耶尔马克宏,并且谈「爱」。我会说,还没有足够的爱。我请他和我谈谈爱。我说:「你的婚姻是全球都很迷恋的目标。」
(Laughter)
(笑声)
Can you tell me about love? What does it mean to you?"I’ve never asked a president or an elected leader about love.I thought I’d try it.And he said -- you know, he actually answered it.And he said, "I love my wife,she is part of me,we’ve been together for decades."But here’s where it really counted,what really stuck with me.He said,It is so important for me to have somebody at home who tells me the truth."
「你能跟我谈谈爱吗?对你而言爱是什么?」我从未请总统或民选领袖跟我谈论爱这议题,我想试一试。而他──你们知道吗,他真的回答了。他说:「我爱我太太,她是我的一部份,我们在一起数十年了。」但真正重要,真正让我难忘的是他说:「对我来说,家里有个人能告诉我真相是非常重要的事。」
So you see, I brought it home. It’s all about the truth.
看,我把话带回到主题了,重点就是真相。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
CH: So there you go. Truth and love.Ideas worth spreading.
克里斯:有你的。真相和爱。值得散播的想法。
Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much. That was great.
克莉丝蒂安艾曼普,非常谢谢你。很棒的访谈。
(Applause)
(掌声)
CA: Thank you. CH: That was really lovely.
克莉丝蒂安:谢谢您。克里斯:访谈非常愉快。
(Applause)
(掌声)
CA: Thank you.
克莉丝蒂安:谢谢。

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